Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

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A Random Player
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Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby A Random Player » Wed May 14, 2014 4:29 pm

This was brought up in another forum I'm on: Make a mod that simulates relativity in single player.

The main idea was that the faster the player goes (like when sprinting), the more time slows down for the player, with almost no time passing in the player's perspective when using all possible speed boosts (sprinting, speed-increasing potions, etc) at once.

Would this be hard, feasible, impossible?
Last edited by A Random Player on Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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testtubegames
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Re: Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby testtubegames » Wed May 14, 2014 4:48 pm

Hmm, I don't know much about what the limits of Minecraft mods are. As in, would there be any way to Lorentz-contract the world? Or are you really just able to change the style/behavior of individual blocks?

As for time, single player would be conceptually easy (supposing that modding allowed you to do this) -- but multiplayer would be right out. If you've got two players traveling forward through time at different rates... well... their clocks won't match up right. This is a general issue for relativistic multiplayer (back in the day, I pondered making a game of relativistic pong for two players).

Long, confusing story short:

a) In relativity, your clock and my clock need to tick at different rates (if we're moving differently)
b) In a real-time game, the human player experiences the same passage of time as the character in the game.
c) Sitting at our desks, all computer-game-players' clocks tick at the same rate.

So it's a no-go.

If you think about it a bit more (without going cross-eyed), you'll realize that one player would be ahead of the other one in time, seeing what that other player did *before* they did it... since their player is at an earlier time. Whoa.

It *could* work with an asynchronous game, though... since then you'd separate out the 'game-character' time from the 'human' time.

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Re: Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby A Random Player » Wed May 14, 2014 5:11 pm

testtubegames wrote:Hmm, I don't know much about what the limits of Minecraft mods are. As in, would there be any way to Lorentz-contract the world? Or are you really just able to change the style/behavior of individual blocks?

As for time, single player would be conceptually easy (supposing that modding allowed you to do this) -- but multiplayer would be right out. If you've got two players traveling forward through time at different rates... well... their clocks won't match up right. This is a general issue for relativistic multiplayer (back in the day, I pondered making a game of relativistic pong for two players).

Long, confusing story short:

a) In relativity, your clock and my clock need to tick at different rates (if we're moving differently)
b) In a real-time game, the human player experiences the same passage of time as the character in the game.
c) Sitting at our desks, all computer-game-players' clocks tick at the same rate.

So it's a no-go.

If you think about it a bit more (without going cross-eyed), you'll realize that one player would be ahead of the other one in time, seeing what that other player did *before* they did it... since their player is at an earlier time. Whoa.

It *could* work with an asynchronous game, though... since then you'd separate out the 'game-character' time from the 'human' time.

Its easy to think about it without cross-eyeing (too much); start with the twin paradox, and the stationary twin is ahead in time of the moving twin. If Stat's at year 10 and Mov's at year 6, Stat should see Mov when he's 10 - impossible. Alternatively, you could make a robot-programming style game, where everything is preplanned, but that takes the whole human aspect out of it.

I do recall that one potion or another warps the world for a bit (nausea?), so length contraction probably'll work. However, the finite speed of light would be harder. And placed blocks would appear to be cut in half for a bit since light hasn't had the time to reach us.
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Re: Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby robly18 » Thu May 15, 2014 8:38 am

I'm going to have to break it to you and say I don't think it's possible.

Allow me to explain:

I'm sure most of you have heard of the game Portal by now, yes? Y'know, bends physics and what have you. In the same engine, other games were made, including a game (well, actually a mod, but think of it as a game) called Garry's mod. Which was incredibly moddable (So you could make mods for a mod! And then you could mod those mods to make a mod for a mod for a mod!).

Now, people tried to recreate the portal physics in it, but they failed, despite the fact that it was using the same basic engine. Why did they fail?

Because they weren't.
See, the portal engine, despite being made in source, used a slightly modified version of it to allow for non-euclidean geometry. For you see, games like minecraft and the source engine have euclidean and classical physics written into them. To change that would either be impossible or very clunky.

As well as this, remember: minecraft has a little quirk. Like you said, it would be very hard to get these things to work in multiplayer. But you see, in minecraft, playing singleplayer is the same as multiplayer: Just with only one person!

So as you can see, there would be a plethora of issues. However, keep in mind, I am by no means an expert. I'm still working on my *first* game, and have no experience in modding minecraft or java whatsoever. So who knows,I could be wrong, and don't hesitate to try it. I'm just saying, I don't think it would be easy at all.
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Re: Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby A Random Player » Thu May 15, 2014 6:00 pm

Well, remember, MIT's A Slower Speed of Light (I tried to type that as an acronym, but...) exists. So it wouldn't be that hard to make a 3D relativity simulator. Maybe instead of starting with minecraft, make a simpler game that builds on relativity instead (though that wouldn't be as fun).
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Re: Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby exfret » Thu May 15, 2014 7:26 pm

I found this a while back while searching for non-Euclidean minecraft:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pmSPlYHxoY

So it's possible to warp the visuals to fit with special relativity if you can change the renderer, but time dilations and everything else would still need to be added in via a different mod.
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Re: Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby robly18 » Fri May 16, 2014 8:52 am

Interesting.
Yeah, I was pretty sure it was possible to make non-euclidean space, but I don't think it's possible to do it using the framework of minecraft.
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Re: Modders: Minecraft relativity possible?

Postby testtubegames » Fri May 16, 2014 10:47 pm

robly18 wrote:Yeah, I was pretty sure it was possible to make non-euclidean space, but I don't think it's possible to do it using the framework of minecraft.

Even given this is the case, it would be interesting to ponder what type of relativity mod one *could* make in Minecraft.

As I said, I don't know much about the limits there. But even if you can't change the flow of time for characters, or warp the world, I bet there are some creative things you could do. (I'm thinking about that quantum mod, which we all agreed was a bit disappointing, but at least it was a thought-provoking attempt)

So I'm thinking -- individual blocks that age faster when you run around. (Could you make a tree grow faster, perhaps?) Maybe blocks that age at different rates depending on whether they are high or low (getting to General Relativity)


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