Calling all Suggestions

What did you draw?
A Random Player
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by A Random Player » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:27 am

testtubegames wrote:
A Random Player wrote:And about the moving/rotating cameras disussed earlier; we could center on a planet or the barycenter of selected planets, and rotating views allow you to select a planet/barycenter to center on, and a planet/barycenter to point at, with an optional angle offset. (I'm just adding the barycenter stuff after making the fractal universe things :P) To watch Lagrange points for example, center on the star and point toward the planet. After getting out of rotating view, reset the angle (or even have an option to rotating the viewing screen by default).
I'm not sure if this is any simpler, but it would work.
I've already got a 'go to center of mass' option built into the game. It might be interesting to get more refined, as you say. You can click and drag to select a bunch of objects, and then certain options appear -- center of mass being one of them. (Others being... uh... delete them all? I'm not sure what other changes you'd make that would involve multiple objects at once). That could be workable. I think the rotating frame could be done in a similar, simple manner. (The UI would be simple for the user, that is... I'm sure implementing this will make me curse a lot)
What about an option to change the velocity of the entire group, so you could, say fling a planetary system?
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19683
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by 19683 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:58 am

testtubegames wrote:
robly18 wrote:
DavidAllyn68 wrote:Suggestion #1 is less a "gravity" suggestion and more a "graphic" suggestion. How about specifying the trail properties of each object -- e.g. color, length, velocity sensitive saturation, etc.

Suggestion #2: Allow suns (who=1 objects) to move. Although there wouldn't be much movement, you could allow suns to interact with each other and, with enough objects, the mass could accumulate enough to move a who=1 object.

Suggestion #3: Create a black hole object :lol:

#1-Yes. Please.

#2-No. "Stars" as the simulator calls them are merely objects that exhibit gravity but are fixed. If you want a movable star, use planets!

#3-Okay.
A) Agreed, that'd be nice
B) Kinda what Robly said. Though I would like to use slightly different language for the objects. Maybe 'stars' should move, too -- and in addition, there are 'fixed stars' that you can add, that mimic what we call 'stars' in the sim now. Of course, in addition, I'd like us to be able to change the colors of the objects at will, so the difference between 'planet' and 'star' would be purely superficial... default settings that you could change anyway.
C)...
19683 wrote:Black holes? Awesome!!!

With general relativity? Please?
C) ... how hard could it be? ;) (I'm going out on a limb and assuming: very hard.)
A Random Player wrote:And about the moving/rotating cameras disussed earlier; we could center on a planet or the barycenter of selected planets, and rotating views allow you to select a planet/barycenter to center on, and a planet/barycenter to point at, with an optional angle offset. (I'm just adding the barycenter stuff after making the fractal universe things :P) To watch Lagrange points for example, center on the star and point toward the planet. After getting out of rotating view, reset the angle (or even have an option to rotating the viewing screen by default).
I'm not sure if this is any simpler, but it would work.
I've already got a 'go to center of mass' option built into the game. It might be interesting to get more refined, as you say. You can click and drag to select a bunch of objects, and then certain options appear -- center of mass being one of them. (Others being... uh... delete them all? I'm not sure what other changes you'd make that would involve multiple objects at once). That could be workable. I think the rotating frame could be done in a similar, simple manner. (The UI would be simple for the user, that is... I'm sure implementing this will make me curse a lot)
A) YES!!! It would be a LOT easier to see which trails are from which objects. :D
B) I had an idea: Maybe stars only respond to the tugs of other stars (or black holes). That way, we could model situations with a binary pair and several planets without the planets interfering with the stars' orbit.
C) I never said it was easy, but nothing worth doing ever is. Right? Fine, you don't have to do full on, maybe just near the black hole. If it makes it easier, you can use tons of approximations. Just do something!!! :!:

I also had a few ideas of my own :idea: :
:idea: 1) Frames always centered on one object.
:idea: 2) Rotating objects. This way, a frame centered on that object would spin with it, and we could see how other objects would APPEAR to move in it's night sky (relative to the object and it's rotation).
:idea: 3) Tides and tide/orbit/rotation interactions. This would demonstrate the lengthening of Earth's day, the recession of the moon's orbit, synchronous rotation, and tidal locking.
:idea: 4) Life. It could grow on planets the right distance from their star and eventually colonize other planets. It could be destroyed by orbit instability and/or collisions. Of course, it would be optional and wouldn't interfere with the rest of the simulation. :mrgreen:
A Random Player wrote:
testtubegames wrote:
A Random Player wrote:And about the moving/rotating cameras disussed earlier; we could center on a planet or the barycenter of selected planets, and rotating views allow you to select a planet/barycenter to center on, and a planet/barycenter to point at, with an optional angle offset. (I'm just adding the barycenter stuff after making the fractal universe things :P) To watch Lagrange points for example, center on the star and point toward the planet. After getting out of rotating view, reset the angle (or even have an option to rotating the viewing screen by default).
I'm not sure if this is any simpler, but it would work.
I've already got a 'go to center of mass' option built into the game. It might be interesting to get more refined, as you say. You can click and drag to select a bunch of objects, and then certain options appear -- center of mass being one of them. (Others being... uh... delete them all? I'm not sure what other changes you'd make that would involve multiple objects at once). That could be workable. I think the rotating frame could be done in a similar, simple manner. (The UI would be simple for the user, that is... I'm sure implementing this will make me curse a lot)
What about an option to change the velocity of the entire group, so you could, say fling a planetary system?
Yes!!! :D
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testtubegames
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by testtubegames » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:31 am

I'm liking all of the ideas. Can't wait to finish up Shocktopus so I can work more on this!
19683 wrote:C) I never said it was easy, but nothing worth doing ever is. Right? Fine, you don't have to do full on, maybe just near the black hole. If it makes it easier, you can use tons of approximations. Just do something!!! :!:
Alright, then. You got it! Since 'c' is very large, I'll set it equal to infinity... and General Relativity simplifies down to Newtonian Gravity. ;)

More seriously, as long as I'm allowed approximations, I think this shouldn't be too bad. I tracked down an equation for effective potentials (thank you Wikipedia), which should let me create some fairly legit black holes.

I'd still love to make a full GR game at some point (doppler shift, spacetime bending, fewer approximations, etc), mind you. But this would be a nice first foray into GR orbits.

19683
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by 19683 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:17 pm

testtubegames wrote:I'm liking all of the ideas. Can't wait to finish up Shocktopus so I can work more on this!
19683 wrote:C) I never said it was easy, but nothing worth doing ever is. Right? Fine, you don't have to do full on, maybe just near the black hole. If it makes it easier, you can use tons of approximations. Just do something!!! :!:
Alright, then. You got it! Since 'c' is very large, I'll set it equal to infinity... and General Relativity simplifies down to Newtonian Gravity. ;)

More seriously, as long as I'm allowed approximations, I think this shouldn't be too bad. I tracked down an equation for effective potentials (thank you Wikipedia), which should let me create some fairly legit black holes.

I'd still love to make a full GR game at some point (doppler shift, spacetime bending, fewer approximations, etc), mind you. But this would be a nice first foray into GR orbits.
Yes!!! Sounds great!!! :D

Also, can you model GR orbit decay.
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testtubegames
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by testtubegames » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:54 pm

19683 wrote:Also, can you model GR orbit decay.
Yeah, from my basic first glance at the Wikipedia article (though I'll need to dig deeper to make sure all is well), it seems like the first approximation to GR orbits is just to add a 1/r^4 term to the force law. That's easy enough to do. And it matches with what one would expect: far away, it reduces to a 1/r^2 law, as usual. Very close, the 1/r^4 dominates... leading to very unstable circular orbits (as we've seen in the simulator) and a tendency for things to get pulled right in to the center (no matter their speed).

That should be interesting to play around with.

A Random Player
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by A Random Player » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:13 pm

Could we have a shortcut for circular orbits in the opposite direction?
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testtubegames
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by testtubegames » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:21 pm

A Random Player wrote:Could we have a shortcut for circular orbits in the opposite direction?
That makes perfect sense. That was a feature I added pretty haphazardly, so I never gave it the full treatment. Really, the sim should choose the direction of circular orbit your mouse is closest to. Just a couple lines of math, very easy.

DavidAllyn68
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by DavidAllyn68 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:12 pm

A Random Player wrote:What about:
  • Letting size of planets and stars be proportional to the (cube root of?) mass
  • Letting planets, asteroids, stars, merge (toggleable)
Yes, I like the merging idea. It would be awesome to create an accretion model with bunches of asteroids to see how they bundle up, clear paths in the disc, and shepherd other object. I would end up leaving it running for long periods. You might have to go full-blown Java app for my needs :lol: Taking to "N"... wouldn't it be cool to have solar system lab that you could just play with orbital systems and let run on your computer or big-screen tv as wall art?? I'm way to geeky for society.

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robly18
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by robly18 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:36 pm

DavidAllyn68 wrote:
A Random Player wrote:What about:
  • Letting size of planets and stars be proportional to the (cube root of?) mass
  • Letting planets, asteroids, stars, merge (toggleable)
Yes, I like the merging idea. It would be awesome to create an accretion model with bunches of asteroids to see how they bundle up, clear paths in the disc, and shepherd other object. I would end up leaving it running for long periods. You might have to go full-blown Java app for my needs :lol: Taking to "N"... wouldn't it be cool to have solar system lab that you could just play with orbital systems and let run on your computer or big-screen tv as wall art?? I'm way to geeky for society.
That could work better with mass 1 planets.

Maybe ARP could cook up one of his neat python codes that generated a random bundle of mass 1 particles!
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A Random Player
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Re: Calling all Suggestions

Post by A Random Player » Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:46 pm

robly18 wrote:
DavidAllyn68 wrote:
A Random Player wrote:What about:
  • Letting size of planets and stars be proportional to the (cube root of?) mass
  • Letting planets, asteroids, stars, merge (toggleable)
Yes, I like the merging idea. It would be awesome to create an accretion model with bunches of asteroids to see how they bundle up, clear paths in the disc, and shepherd other object. I would end up leaving it running for long periods. You might have to go full-blown Java app for my needs :lol: Taking to "N"... wouldn't it be cool to have solar system lab that you could just play with orbital systems and let run on your computer or big-screen tv as wall art?? I'm way to geeky for society.
That could work better with mass 1 planets.

Maybe ARP could cook up one of his neat python codes that generated a random bundle of mass 1 particles!
Done:

Code: Select all

import random
import math
numberofparticles = 12
mass = 20
output = "Gravity Fun at TestTubeGames.com: [ForceG: -2,Qual: 1,Zoom: 1,xSet: 0,ySet: 0]"
for a in range(numberofparticles):
 rand = math.log(random.random(),.95)
 rand2 = random.random()*2*math.pi
 rand3 = math.log(random.random(),.5)
 rand4 = random.random()*2*math.pi
 X = rand*math.cos(rand2)
 Y = rand*math.sin(rand2)
 XV = rand3*math.cos(rand4)
 YV = rand3*math.sin(rand4)
 output = output + ", [x0: " + str(X) + ",y0: " + str(Y) + ",vx: " + str(XV) + ",vy: " + str(YV) + ",t0: 0,who: 2,m: "+ str(mass) + "]"
print output
linky
Just a quick modification from the dynamical relaxation code I posted earlier, adding a constant for mass and number of particles (for ease of changing). It generates locations and velocities based on an exponential distribution, not constantly, though.
It appears some particles never collide with any others due to the generation. Also, m=1 doesn't provide enough attraction in this setup, so I default it at 20. Also, using a lot of particles lag. A lot.
Demo:

Code: Select all

Gravity Fun at TestTubeGames.com: [ForceG: -2,Qual: 1,Zoom: 1,xSet: 0,ySet: 0], [x0: -0.0665169383305,y0: 7.60239679463,vx: -1.46895700158,vy: 0.286414231024,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 4.02455152976,y0: 1.20394653037,vx: -0.0294082722763,vy: 0.379511826924,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -7.82669843424,y0: 13.3106048896,vx: 5.21132180044,vy: 1.03298887814,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 0.808974799929,y0: 1.63504560673,vx: 0.0459525263747,vy: -0.0198386889876,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 48.641765969,y0: 14.8521881755,vx: -0.126855429886,vy: 0.0855947945096,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 1.271144906,y0: 31.4555832044,vx: -0.290031694166,vy: -0.135553756149,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -30.0490270578,y0: 42.4113765451,vx: -3.91798026565,vy: 2.40649359581,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 23.0268122903,y0: -19.154102832,vx: 1.19134461082,vy: 0.0264859032158,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 4.459934915,y0: -8.65565023751,vx: -2.35318518117,vy: 1.6216673278,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 2.14442849495,y0: -4.50847339073,vx: 0.347950891259,vy: 1.93464701353,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -1.34637220668,y0: -2.26488038833,vx: 1.86983834836,vy: -3.23201822429,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 43.4544314697,y0: 51.710672565,vx: 0.559460688357,vy: 0.224636808128,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20]
For those who work at NASA with all the supercomputers:

Code: Select all

Gravity Fun at TestTubeGames.com: [ForceG: -2,Qual: 1,Zoom: 1,xSet: 0,ySet: 0], [x0: 3.30739620823,y0: -1.81888980328,vx: 0.637762125608,vy: -0.907698335719,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -11.0854717168,y0: 14.6918809768,vx: 0.870082174931,vy: 0.381676883984,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -24.6848091528,y0: -0.840653115821,vx: -1.06360407368,vy: 0.626030483009,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -0.742776755646,y0: -0.740400654458,vx: -0.229294930737,vy: -0.0587083620533,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -28.3614267918,y0: 6.05166616413,vx: -0.722558028149,vy: -1.61703650305,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 24.3597040701,y0: -13.7501090177,vx: 1.09207152354,vy: 0.155250126587,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -3.03652996656,y0: -2.09015062939,vx: 0.102590220743,vy: -0.0358819137244,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -16.5664494844,y0: 8.60552998419,vx: -0.556413959863,vy: -0.121924331151,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -3.79898884168,y0: 26.2196645986,vx: 0.402458549062,vy: -0.389488319307,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -0.647142743933,y0: -1.72769163148,vx: 0.494120367795,vy: 1.02418937427,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -0.458278561683,y0: 32.5765251114,vx: -0.380695825665,vy: -0.0185954972105,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -0.428749296208,y0: 0.967601675547,vx: 0.418980832132,vy: 1.05275307263,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -16.6979185929,y0: 14.0693580091,vx: -0.240550378376,vy: -0.470206861468,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 7.49011321554,y0: 10.1179356762,vx: 1.41765603843,vy: -0.112680816213,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -7.49540837791,y0: 5.63452221789,vx: -0.227049249489,vy: -0.929289725009,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -32.9858554822,y0: 33.4460192625,vx: -0.0973651816928,vy: 0.112303600023,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -11.2551011348,y0: 0.631534356449,vx: 1.72335257912,vy: 2.74647406051,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 28.0118416819,y0: 19.6827267546,vx: 0.15688376276,vy: 0.0116283240572,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -19.7366992831,y0: -4.26659767152,vx: 0.21970641888,vy: -0.255982874804,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 0.000880385029745,y0: -0.896300607543,vx: -3.70071895611,vy: -0.309073090602,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 16.9138004003,y0: -37.7911855401,vx: 0.849866769399,vy: -2.12300245927,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 64.3240890253,y0: -29.6333344667,vx: 1.92921474442,vy: 0.829673722299,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -1.81978093863,y0: 5.65798941657,vx: -0.21436450853,vy: 0.0650163851027,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -1.65784350102,y0: -1.51022318567,vx: 0.318640473722,vy: -0.659241183239,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 8.14802512295,y0: 2.86666579067,vx: 2.89307223029,vy: -2.32883749908,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -5.02077607992,y0: -1.10233611863,vx: 0.379116698917,vy: -0.0749314944217,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -53.7885739219,y0: -6.28270851913,vx: 0.886351595603,vy: -0.245015726024,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 10.6238782478,y0: 5.53876792334,vx: 0.109509450931,vy: -0.0292857269946,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: 10.6920107118,y0: 7.66163256938,vx: 0.0577428219458,vy: -0.0109414892706,t0: 0,who: 2,m: 20], [x0: -2.82657701129,y0: 1.29309056148,vx: 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Also, should/could this be a sticky?
$1 = 100¢ = (10¢)^2 = ($0.10)^2 = $0.01 = 1¢ [1]
Always check your units or you will have no money!

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